merry christmas to me

"Clown Shoe Pilot" (csp) 12/22/2015 at 01:19 • Filed to: gunlopnik, scary black rifle, roller locking goodness, (mostly) german stuff

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I bought another scary black rifle. Why? Because I liked it and found a decent deal. Pictured is a real HK93. I bought a Vector clone, because they’re mechanically equivalent at 1/2 to 1/3 the price. Also, Vector uses a ton of original German parts and only puts enough of their own US made parts in it to keep it “American made” in the eyes of the ATF, so there’s still a lot of Tuetonic craftsmanship in there. This design is from the days when the Germans were worried about having to fight THE OTHER GERMANS so you know they were paying close attention.

Steve in Manhattan > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:23

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As long as you don’t shoot up any theaters, you have my blessing. And I’m a liberal.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 01:24

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I’m a giant movie nerd. Shooting up a theater would TOTALLY RUIN the moviegoing experience.

Also, it’s fucking psychotic and that ain’t me.

Steve in Manhattan > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:32

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My position (as a fucking liberal!) is this - you need clips to defend yourself, and you need whatever you need to hunt. Anything else isn’t necessary. I’ve shot a .45, and that’s plenty of stopping power. Although (silly liberal me), I’d still like the ability to go to a gun range and machine pistol the shit out of some targets. My weapon of choice would be a Belgian-built single-barrel shotgun - cycle that motherfucker, and they know what you have. Shot a Browning built in Belgium a couple times - light kick, and easy to hit the bird.

CAR_IS_MI > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:34

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You own a gun?!?! Terrorist!!

Kidding. I’m an anti-anti-gun activist. I’d be super jeally had you bought a real HK93, seeing as how I can’t seem to bring myself to pay the premiums for a real one either.

Steve in Manhattan > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:36

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And I should have said - shooting up a school, or a hotel, or a newspaper, or a Planned Parenthood Clinic - also not cool. Shoot up a Klan rally. Be somebody.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 01:39

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I agree that a rifle like this is completely unnecessary. So is an M Coupe, EVERYTHING that happens at my place of employment, and this laptop I’m typing my response on. Luckily, “need” has nothing to do with anything.

Tactically speaking, telegraphing your position by cycling the action on your shotgun is a pretty bad decision, but you’ll find no disagreement that the noise is cool as shit.

For Sweden > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:40

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An HK keeps the Stasi away

Clown Shoe Pilot > CAR_IS_MI 12/22/2015 at 01:40

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I used to own a real HK53. 100% German except for the registered sear to make it go fool automagic.

I should’ve kept that gun. Prices have skyrocketed.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 01:46

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If it could be done where nobody actually had to get shot, I’d be super interested to see how the country reacted to a Klan rally getting shot up by a bald fat white guy.

Sam > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:49

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I want to get a Mosin or something else cheap to shoot, but since my best friend shot himself in the head, my parents have decided no gunsd for me.

M54B30 > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:52

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Nice buy! I have a few pistols but no long guns yet - too cheap and I hate spending money.

I’ve loved the 83 everytime I’ve shot them

Clown Shoe Pilot > Sam 12/22/2015 at 01:55

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Dang. Sorry to hear that about your friend.

If you want cheap to shoot and personal ownership is off the table, a 22lr rented at your local firing range is hard to beat.

Sam > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:57

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It’s no biggie now. The nearest range to me actually rents up to things like AR’s and stuff (paying for the ammo, of course).

Steve in Manhattan > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 01:59

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But seriously - you break into my Manhattan apartment (will never happen, no you or anyone) and hear that? You turn around. Always fancied a Ruger myself. An armed liberal. It. Could. Work!

Steve in Manhattan > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 02:02

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Bald fat white guy who thought the Klan was too liberal, believed Obama was a Kenyan, believed that Vince Foster was shot by Hillary - and that Clinton Christmas Card List! And all those drugs coming through Mena, and on and on and on.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Sam 12/22/2015 at 02:04

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Ammo cost is my reason for recommending a 22lr. Even at ridiculously inflated mandatory “use our ammo” rental range prices, you can do a lot of shooting for low cash outlay with a 22. You probably won’t go home with any strange bruises on your shoulder either.

You should see what a stock like this:

does to your shoulder when it jets jammed into your shoulder under .308 recoil a bunch of times.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 02:09

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Or a bald fat white guy that thinks the Klan is a buncha retards, supports Planned Parenthood, gay marriage, drug legalization, open borders, an end to the death penalty, single payer health care, and tax reform that would have the partners at Goldman Sachs putting out a contract on my life.

El Rivinado > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 02:30

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Pretty nice purchase. I’m curious as to where you live, since I would love to own cool stuff, but living in Commiefornia California, I can't really get access to the cool stuff without it being neutered like a dog. I swear, once I move out of state and live on my own, first gun I'm buying is a DSArms FAL.

Tareim - V8 powered > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 03:07

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Could you tell me what your political opinion is on it? I don't think you mentioned it, at all... Lol

samssun > For Sweden 12/22/2015 at 05:46

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Right arm of the free world? Wait wrong rifle...and caliber...and country...

itschrome > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 06:31

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Did you get this too??

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 07:23

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Depending on where you live, find a 5 round magazine and a descent 5x7 scope and you’ve got a pretty neat hunting rifle.

I have a FN - FAL on my wish list but they’re just too damn expensive. Even the century arms knock offs.

EL_ULY > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 08:30

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sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!

Clown Shoe Pilot > El Rivinado 12/22/2015 at 10:01

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Texas. Hot as balls in the summer, but no restrictions on hardware ownership :)

Clown Shoe Pilot > samssun 12/22/2015 at 10:06

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Already taken care of.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Steve in Manhattan 12/22/2015 at 10:41

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I shoot trap and skeet with a Belgian built Browning A-5. It’s an absolute sweetheart of a gun... really tames the 12 gauge and hardly ever misses the clays.

Also, I know plenty of liberals who own guns, including semi-automatic, magazine fed, scary black guns. In fact I know far more liberals who are pro-gun than I know conservatives who are anti-gun. It’s a sad state of affairs that we have to play contrarian politics in this country.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 10:52

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Awesome, nice present to yourself! My buddy has the same rifle, although I think his is a PTR instead of a Vector. Either way, it’s fun as hell to shoot and very accurate. It also launches brass with a vengeance. We usually shoot it at an open outdoor range, so we have to warn everyone at least 30 feet to our right when we fire.

I don’t think I’ll be getting anything new this year for Christmas, but I am going to finish up a few projects. I’ve got an AR10 I’m working on, just need to decide on a trigger, and a barrel for it. I’ll probably keep it in .308 but I’m tempted to go to 7mm-08 or .260 Rem. I’ve also got an AR-15 in .300 Blackout I’m working on. Waiting to get a tax stamp on that one and then I can finish it up.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/22/2015 at 11:04

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I’ve got a PTR 91, so basically the same rifle except in 7.62 instead of 5.56. Same sausage, different lengths.

I can recommend Williams Trigger Specialties for the trigger on your AR. They did the trigger work on my AR15 and my AR10.

I’m waiting on a tax stamp for a 308 can. I doubt it’ll make the new year. It took 4 months for my last one. That would put this one at exactly new years eve. Somehow, I doubt that the ATF folks in West Virginia are cranking through the paperwork with gusto in December.

wiffleballtony > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 11:25

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Good for you. Seems like whenever I’m in the market something happens, everyone freaks out and prices skyrocket.

wiffleballtony > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 11:27

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“Tactically speaking, telegraphing your position by cycling the action on your shotgun is a pretty bad decision”

×100000

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 11:35

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A buddy of mine had a PTR-91 for a year or so. It was a hell of a thumper, but it was fun the shoot. An HK93-type rifle makes a lot for sense for dicking-around-at-the-range duty.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/22/2015 at 11:39

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Do you reload, or are you going to shoot factory ammo? 6.5 Creedmoor has better availability for factory match ammo, so if you want to shoot small groups and don’t want a .308, that’s your best choice. 7mm-08 and .260 Remington have a good selection of hunting ammo though. I’d like a 6.5 or 7mm chambered rifle, but there are no ranges long enough near me to take advantage of the ballistics.

Also, I’m jealous of the can you have coming for the .300. NJ bans those (along with damn near everything else fun), so I’ll never get to enjoy the a quiet shooting rifle. It’s probably better for my wallet though, otherwise everything would have a can.

WiscoProud > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 11:45

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Out of curiosity, what did that run you? I've always liked the HK93s. ARs are fun, but they're remarkably common. This is fun and different.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 11:57

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Sorry, I’m not up on my HK stuff. Even though I oogled the picture, I kept thinking the 9x series were all 7.62 and the 5x series were all 5.56mm. My bad. Still, it’s a nice rifle.

I’ll have to look into Williams Trigger Specialties, especially for my .300 BLK since it’s going to probably end up being my rifle for 3-gun shooting. For the AR-10 I may still go with a drop in, but who knows. I am intrigued by their set trigger system.

I just put my paperwork in a week or so ago, so I have no hopes of seeing it any time soon. The last time I did it was back in March and I got it in July. I imagine they aren’t any faster now, and as you mention, they may be slower.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 12/22/2015 at 12:00

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I do reload, so shooting oddball calibers isn’t as much of a problem for me. I hear fantastic things about the 6.5mm Creedmoor and I definitely wouldn’t mind a bolt gun chambered in it. The reason I’m not looking at that for my AR-10 is that I already have a .308 bolt, and the .260 Rem and 7mm-08 are both based on the .308 cartridge. IIRC, the 6.5 Creedmoor is based on a .30TC and requires a different bolt. If I’d thought ahead a little more I probably would have gone that round. As it stands, all the above cartridges are excellent for long range shooting so I don’t think I can go wrong with any of them.

And thanks. It sucks that NJ doesn’t let you have any of that stuff. I’m in Virginia and for the moment we can still get those sorts of items, but there’s a lot of people here who would like to see those freedoms revoked.

Clown Shoe Pilot > WiscoProud 12/22/2015 at 12:40

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1200. Mags are more expensive and the HK platform guns are one trick ponies. No switching out parts to make a gun in a new caliber, different barrel length, etc. If I could only have ONE black rifle, it’d be an AR.

WiscoProud > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 12:44

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Eh, I think I would still prefer the HK. I admire the versatility of the AR platform, but I kind of like the no nonsense look of the HK. It says "this is what I do, and I do it well". There isn't that tacticool look that so many AR custom builds have.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/22/2015 at 12:51

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6.5 Creedmoor is based on the .308 bolt face and uses the same bolt at .260 and 7mm-08. I think you can form 6.5 Creedmoor from .308 brass, but it’s a bit of work. .260 Remington is supposed to be easier to form by simply necking down 7mm-08 or .308 brass, or necking up .243 Winchester. In any case, if you’re reloading, you can easily get the right brass or prep the brass you have and be set for a long time.

Good luck down there. D.C. is leaking south, and I fear you guys will be stuck with the same garbage NY is in another decade or two. I heard about the recent changes to your CC reciprocity. That sucks big time, but at least you can still get and use a Utah permit. That’s better than I can do!

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/22/2015 at 13:52

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For barrels check our AR15Performance.com . The owner is pretty active on 68forums.com which is another good place for info on the 6.8SPC and other oddball AR calibers. One of my buddies built a gun using his 6.8SPC barrel and it was an excellent barrel. They make a lot of other caliber barrels including .308 and a bunch of wildcats.

I’ve got an AR in .223 and one in 6.8SPC. The .223 has a Timney single stage and I put a Wilson Combat two stage in the 6.8. I really like the Wilson trigger. Part of that is my preference for a two stage trigger, but everybody who’s shot that gun comments on the nice trigger. IMO it is the way to go if you’re looking for a drop in.

My .223 was built with a cheapo complete upper. The 6.8 I put together from components and used a Wilson Combat barrel. It shoots better than I can.

samssun > Clown Shoe Pilot 12/22/2015 at 19:57

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You’re one MP5/10 away from playing Rainbow 6 in your backyard.

Clown Shoe Pilot > samssun 12/22/2015 at 20:23

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I’ve shot one, but I don’t think there were ever any made for non-gov’t consumption in the US.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) 12/23/2015 at 10:46

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Hmm, I was led to believe the 6.5CM was based on a different round and wouldn’t use a .308 bolt face. I’ll have to do some more research. I don’t actually own any .308 rifles, so I’m leaning towards just sticking with .308 since it’s such a ubiquitous round.

And thanks, we are slowly being overrun with the MD and DC types. I think you’re right, probably only another decade or two. And the CC reciprocity is kind of BS, but I at least see the logic behind it. They are dropping states whose requirements are below what Virginia requires and I can understand that. I’m probably in the minority of pro 2A people who don’t believe in “constitutional carry” and actually want people to have some kind of training before they’re allowed to walk the streets with a loaded gun. Just look at that lady in Michigan who opened fire into a parking lot in an attempt to stop some guys stealing power tools from Home Depot.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much 12/23/2015 at 10:49

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Thanks, I’ll have to give AR15 Performance a look. I’m pretty sure I’m going to go with a BHW barrel for my .300 but I was still undecided on the AR-10.

I’ve got a .223 AR that I scratch built. I’m actually really happy with how it came out, it’s been a flawless performer so far, but it’s still a stock mil-spec trigger. I may upgrade it at some point but I’d rather get through my other projects first. The .300 will get a nice single stage trigger since it’s probably going to be my 3-gun rifle. The AR-10 will probably end up with a nice two-stage. I’ll have to take a look at the Wilson Combat that you have in your 6.8.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/23/2015 at 11:10

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They are dropping states whose requirements are below what Virginia requires and I can understand that. I’m probably in the minority of pro 2A people who don’t believe in “constitutional carry” and actually want people to have some kind of training before they’re allowed to walk the streets with a loaded gun.

I tend to agree. I wish all states with carry permits required marksmanship training and classroom training on how to conduct yourself and when to use deadly force. Then again, I also wish all states would issue permits, rather than having this patchwork set of a rules that change on a whim. I’d rather everyone be on a level playing field than separate, but equal.

The issue I have with the ruling in VA is that some states they pulled off the list - North Carolina for example - have all that and more. The ruling seems a bit politically motivated. Its frustrating that any conversation regarding guns and their use turns into a shit show. I feel like

You can tell a Finn but you can't tell him much > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/23/2015 at 11:21

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Wilson makes a drop in 3 gun trigger. If it is anything like their two stage I’m sure it’s an awesome trigger.

My dad has a Stag 3G with a Geissele super three gun trigger . That is an amazing trigger, but could be a little sketchy. It feels like a two stage with the second stage missing. It is smooth, smooth, smooth, wow, it just shot.

I’ve heard good things about the ALG ACT triggers . They are around $60 instead of $250+ like the Geissele, Wilson or Timney’s. ALG is a sister company to Geissele Automatics, and is owned by Amy Geissele, the wife of Bill Geissele.

For parts kits ironworkstactical.com is a good place to shop. He has an LPK that you can customize and leave out the stuff you don’t need while upgrading what you want. Pricing is good on it too.

Now I’ve got the itch to build another. One of these days I need to get off my butt and make an NFA trust. I’d like to build an SBR and pick up a can. Someday... A nice 12” 6.8 with a can would be a lot of fun.

Steve in Manhattan > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/23/2015 at 22:18

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If it was easy to obtain a handgun here, I might get one. I’d go to a range too - I did OK last time (25 years ago).

Steve in Manhattan > Tareim - V8 powered 12/23/2015 at 22:19

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My opinion? Fuck the NRA. There, I said it.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Steve in Manhattan 12/24/2015 at 09:37

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Yeah, I’ve heard its a huge pain in the ass in NYC.

Also, think that’s a good sentiment to have - go, practice, learn. That’s one of the things that kills me, all these people who like “Woo! Yeah! ‘Murica! Gonna go buy me a gun and shoot some terrorists and shit! Woo!” So they go buy a gun, go to the range once and run a box of ammo through it, and think they’re experts.

I go to the range practically every weekend - I coach a junior smallbore rifle team, so it’s not like I’m not going there anyways. However, I consider my skills with a handgun barely above average, which is sad given the amount of practice I’ve had. I learned the wrong way and am spending a lot of time now breaking old, bad habits.

Steve in Manhattan > Snuze: Needs another Swede 12/24/2015 at 17:54

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When I was just out of high school, I had a girlfriend whose dad had been in the Marine Corps. He clearly wanted to take my measure, so he took me to the range. Two shotguns - got around 1/2 the pigeons. Rifle, forget which. 2 handguns - one a .357 Magnum (Taurus?) and one some sort of revolver. I must have passed, because he let me live.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > Steve in Manhattan 12/31/2015 at 19:34

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Sounds like you did pretty good. If I have daughters (no kids yet) you can best believe I’d do the same. In fact I’m taking my younger cousin and her boyfriend soon, though he’s a good guy and already a hunter and shoots in Boy Scouts. He’s working on his Eagle now, so my kind of guy.